HorseChannel.com Message Board / HorseChannel.com Forums / Natural Horsemanship

Who Is The Most In It For The Horse?

Savvy4Horses — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:27:50 GMT

Please do not include your personal instructor as 'other.' I don't mean this as an insult (I have a great personal instructor too!!!) but I just want to know who you think- whether you approve of their program or not- is most in it for the horse?

I personally hate most of them but if one of their methods didn't work then I'd simply buy a DVD from another.

Sorry to say this to all you Parellites (I was one of them) but PP didn't even start out as an NH trainer- he says it on his bio on his website- so technically he didn't really have a talent with horses, he just found out about pressure and release (pr) and the flight animal instinct, made a whole bunch of games, and priced everything to where he could afford five hundred dollar chaps for his in it for the money wife...

An official statement from Parelli

Woodrows Mommy — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:21:44 GMT

Hey, you all remember this thread?

http://board.horsechannel.com/Topic307138-10-1.aspx

For those who don't remember or don't want to read the whole thread, there was a woman who had suffered a major head injury while working with her young horse, and she was a Parelli fan. While bedridden, she noticed that Parelli and many of his followers and people in his "educational materials" (website, videos, books, TV show, and so on) - were not wearing helmets. Concerned, she wrote Parelli and was sent back an email telling her that riders of correctly trained PNH horses were so safe that helmets weren't necessary, and that if you felt you needed a helmet to be safe on your horse- you shouldn't be riding it.

Shortly after, it was announced that Linda Parelli had had a bad fall off of Remmer when he stumbled and fell, and that Linda had injured her head in the fall.

Well, those two stories - the absolutely ridiculous letter about Parelli's stance on helmets, and then Linda's fall and head injury - sparked a LOT of discussion all over the internet. The woman's story and her reply from Parelli were even featured on FHOTD (fuglyblog.com). Today Parelli issued a new official statement on the use of helmets on the Parelli Facebook page, encouraging anyone under 18 to use a helmet when riding (you can read it here: http://ow.ly/xEya)

It would seem that someone in Parelli's arsenal of lawyers and PR people realized that they had better change their tune...

New to the Forum

Monique — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:39:11 GMT

Hi all. I’m new to the forum, so I thought I would share a little about myself and say hello. My family had horses when I was a child, but I never did any of the training. At 27 I decided to adopt a rescue horse. I knew nothing about training, but knew that I wanted a natural approach. With my horse especially (because of his past), I couldn’t use force or fear. When I got him, you couldn’t raise a hand near him without scaring him. He was afraid of people and didn’t want to be touched. I found an amazing trainer with ideals that I could identify with. By studying her approach, watching her videos, and following a weekly program with her, my horse has been completely transformed. He is an amazing horse who is intelligent and inquisitive and now we can finally see that side of him!

Looking with both eyes

airborngirl — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 12:17:28 GMT

I started doing natural horsemanship with my older horse, Scotch, a year ago. It has really helped him to respect me and my space, and he has become a happier horse.

I recently started some nh with my younger horse, Patches, but things aren't going as smoothly. He won't look at me with both of his eyes - he peeks from the corner of his eye with his ears back, acting tense. Is he scared or stubborn? I've been trying to do a lot of the friendly game, sacking out, etc, but he doesn't like touch. He will back up, disengage his hindquarters, and play the squeeze game. I'm afraid he is doing this out of fear though.

What should I do? Is he looking at me with one eye because he feels scared? Threatened? What should I do to correct this behavior?

Getting In TTouch With Your Horse/Mad At PNH

Savvy4Horses — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 06:55:36 GMT

So I had saved up for months to aquire the PNH On Line kit. I scrounged Ebay dying for a deal when I finally purchased what I thought would be the 'secret' (as the PNH people had told me) to horsemanship. I would be a master. People would bow at my feet. Pat would say 'good job.'

I recieved the package and realized how very few items were contained in the stunning box. The DVD seemed realistic to do first so I sat down with popcorn thrilled to finally own a little piece of the Parelli logo. After ten minutes I'm bored, frusterated and furious! Did you know that those DVD's are just ads for other DVD's that you 'can't do Parelli without.' He doesn't tell you how to do the patterns or anything about horse physiollogy or behavior- just that the patterns are the Parelli's roadmap... A little dispointed I figured that all my questions and ideas about horse physiollogy would be answered in the book. I opened it. "Do you want more savvy? Buy the Online, At Liberty, Freestyle and Finesse patterns today!" Then it was just fancy photos and a horseinality thing which was too complicated and a little stupid- I could've invented it. These patterns were just made-up games- not a pathway to my horse. I gave up my dogs training lessons, my riding, my money I had saved for six months and my dignity to be a Parellite. And it sucks.

So saddened by what I had discovered I determined that I would not be a mindless Parellite who simply followed the footsteps of the money driven Pat. Thank goodness I hadn't bought that stupid carrot stick (crop with Parelli logo on it) or the savvy string (a piece of string with the Parelli logo on it). Instead I started listening to you people on here with experience, my instructor and experienced horse people again and guess what- they had plenty of information if I was willing to listen. My instructor already knew that horses were flight animals and that they weren't being 'bad' when they spooked or shied. She already knew the biomechanics of riding (the Parelli's Fluidy thing is cr-p!!!) and how to recieve the most out of your horse! She didn't need a billion dollar stick to establish her alpha or a trillion dollar DVD to know how to respond. She was a good horseperson.

I really wanted something more with the horses I rode though. I wanted to understand them, to read them, to respond to them accordingly. I didn't want to be a rider. I wanted to be a horseperson. Finally prepared to take a chance on another clinician I did much more studying- did not judge anything by a pretty cover or photo- and decided on TTouch.

Linda-Tellington Jones does not think her method is gospel and reconizes plenty of other methods- and recommends them. I've already found 'centered riding' and another method through her website! Did the fat old Parelli's do that? No way! (Well not unless they were getting something out of it.)

So the moral of this story is if you're a novice out there like me who was awed by some circus tricks, pretty photos and a cool website make sure you know what you're getting into. Have a list of questions like:
1. Do they train competition horses?
2. Are they genuinely good riders/horsepeople?

3. Are they in it for the money or do they really have something to offer you?

4. Do they reconize other methods in case theirs doesn't work out?

5. Do they have lists of products you NEED to have or can you use substitutes.

Now I'm not trying (really) to bash PNH here. If it works for your horse good for you! But try to be open to new ideas. You miss a lot when you simply pick one method as gospel. I did. But I won't anymore.

Horse Illustrated wants YOUR natural horsemanship feedback!

HC Editor — Wed, 21 May 2008 09:59:02 GMT

As we plan for new content, we want to make sure you’re getting everything you expect from Horse Illustrated. To do so, we need your help. What type of natural horsemanship content would you like to see in the coming year? Any particular clinicians or techniques you’d like to see?

Chris Irwin

Savvy4Horses — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:14:18 GMT

I was reading Equine Wellness Magazine and there was an article by Chris Irwin about Equine Assisted Personal Development that he invented. He seems really down to earth and teaches you about equine body language and stuff... I was thinking about buying his book and if I'm interested I'll try his program... Maybe even try EAPD! But I want to know what you think?

Clicking For Connection

Savvy4Horses — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:02:07 GMT

So I've been trying to combine a couple of training methods.

1. NH (Or Good Horsemanship as Misfit calls it and I agree with!)

2. Dressage

3. Clicker Training

What do you guys think of all these methods?

Any one heard of Ken Mcnabb???

appylover — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 09:22:37 GMT

I personally really like the way Ken traines, but I would like to see what you guys think. I want to be his apprentice when I get older, does anyone else? Thanks guys!

Bad Blanketing!

Savvy4Horses — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:53:20 GMT

I've read the book "The Soul Of A Horse" by Joe Camp and I have a question. In the book Joe Camp questioned all traditional horse wisdom like training, stables, feeding, horseshoes and came to great conclusions- and for people who say some horses can't go barefoot if their competiting just take a look at his 'barefoot champions' section were horses in the highest levels of every disipline compete! OFF TOPIC- anywho, one thing he questioned were blankets. Joe Camp said that blankets mess up a horses thermagoregulatory system because a horse is half warm and half cold and his system doesn't know what to do. Is this true?

(By the way his website is www.soulofahorse.com and his book ROCKS!

Help with my new horse.

jubilee2010 — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 07:18:12 GMT

Ok. So Hunter is a very sweet 6 or 7 year old OTTB. He just retired the end of this summer so he is new to his routine. I just bought him and he is so sweet. He doesn't buck or kick. I have NOT ridden him. Just lunging and ground work but we are going to start riding him this weekend.

Lunging him he will go wonderfully his good way (maybe one or two attitude sways every week) but his bad (to the right) he doesn't like to budge. I can usually get him going for a little bit but when i try to make him go faster by clicking or flicking the line/whip at him he will pin his ears and stare me down or he might even jump into the center for a stride or two. He will also decide when he is done and will either switch directions or stop and face me and not move. I can't get him going again that way without taking a few minutes tyring to get him to go that way. He will even run INTO the whip to avoid going that way. And no its not physical. I think this is because he's a big baby and gets frustrated that i want him to go away and work and its harder going to his right because he doesn't have the proper muscling there. But im not sure. He will do this his good way sometimes (like i said once or twice a week now) when i flick the whip or line at him. sometimes even just flicking my hand at him will set him off.

His ground manners are pretty good so nothing really there but i just want opinions on how to handle this.

He has gotten MUCH better. He used to constantly do this to me. He would also just stop and stare at me. Now he at least moves.

HELP!

thanks

P.S-i will try to get a video of me lunging him for you to all see his reaction.

How do you define 'Natural Horsemanship'?

Misfit Style — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:21:08 GMT

Pretty much self explanatory.

I keep hearing different definitions of 'natural horsemanship' but none that I actually feel fits.

Horsemanship isn't 'natural' however you look at it. Being ridden is one of the most UNnatural things for a horse to put up with.

Some people feel that natural horsemanship is simply training while keeping the horse's natural instincts in mind. Using herd dynamics in order to reach one's goals. But that is no different than regular horsemanship.

Some people feel that natural horsemanship is training with the least amount of force and gadgets possible. But that is no different than regular horsemanship.

The conclusion I've come to is that 'natural horsemanship' is nothing more than a brand name people use in order to make money.

The old school trainers (Ray Hunt, the Dorrance brothers, Buck Brannan) never used the term 'Natural Horsemanship'. They just called it 'horsemanship'.

Good training is good training. Going back to ancient Greece, using the 'popular' definition of natural horsemanship, one could argue that Xenophon was the first real natural horsemanship trainer.

I guess what I'm trying to get to is where does regular 'common sense training' end and 'natural horsemanship' begin?

PNH People!

Savvy4Horses — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:43:13 GMT

Hi everyone! I'm pretty new here so I'd just like to get my slate clean. Yes I do Parelli but I understand and acknowledge that plenty of people and horses dislike Parelli for plenty of good solid reasons, no one is banned or excused from this forum but I would like EVERYONE- including the Parelli people- to be considerate. This post is not intended to start a fight and if it does I will be contacting a MOD.

Please don't use this forum as a resource just chat about Parelli, your experiences, and your goals... I'm hoping to get my On Line level 4 soon! How about you?

Thanks,

Savvy4Horses

Anti-Parelli and Clint Anderson

~♥trixiedoodles♥~ — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 14:16:02 GMT

Are you Anti?

Parelli help

princess arabin — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 06:15:11 GMT

I'm getting my first horse and really want to do Parelli work on her but don't remember much of it (I saw i him a few yrs ago). Can you guys help me and tell me the 7 games and how to do them again?

Bitless Riding?

ForeverGRaciE — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:04:27 GMT

Is bitless riding actually better for your horse? I've never tried it as a training method. Does anyone know if it is actually helps? I mean I would think it is mentally and physically better for the horse...

Proof Parelli should not be doing anything that connect horses with people.

horseless722 — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 01:49:46 GMT

I dot wear a helmet and this is not my story. I am aware the daners of not wearing one but it is my choice. BUT THIS IDIOT actually thinks that it is dangerious behavor can be 'trained' out so the rider doesnt fall and get hurt? What kind of screw is loose in that brain. And HI still carries his crap and promotes his rap another reason not to buy their publication. NO reputable publiction would support something known to be dangerious. In this case not wearing a helmet and those who support the not wearing of one who claim to be equine professionals.

Forwarded from another list.
--------------------------
Parelli and helmets

I am sending this to a couple different groups as I feel it is important to get the word out to potential Parelli followers. As many of you know, I am currently recovering from a brain injury from a fall from a horse this summer. This was a green horse but he spooked while I was getting off, something any horse could do and the odds of a serious accident on a horse finally caught up with me. One thing I have noticed is an ad for Parelli and Linda is jumping a horse bareback and no helmet. Also while I was bedridden I watch a couple of his episodes and he had a a young person who was physically disabled riding without a helmet and it was obvious her balance was not good. I sent a letter to Parellis asking them to please advocate the use of helmets. This is their reply, which I think is totally STUPID coming from professionals.

Patti - w.wa

Hi Patti,

Thank you for taking the time to write us. We understand your views and concerns. As quoted by the faculty at our ranch:

"You are quite right - helmets are fabulous things and they save many lives. Tragically though, people who ARE wearing helmets also die or suffer serious head injuries in accidents with horses.

Our program is intended to address the safety problem at its root - which is behavioral - rather than address the symptoms of it. Our message is about developing the relationship with the horse, and the savvy level of the rider, so that unsafe behavior is addressed long before the rider gets on the horse - rather than allowing the unsafe situations to continue to occur and hope that the helmet, body protector, etc, will protect us from the consequences.

The reason you do not see our people wearing helmets is because we try to teach people that rather than be brave because they are wearing a a helmet to protect them, they would be better off not riding until their horse is behaving safely.

People have called us brave for not wearing helmets, but we say they are a lot braver than we are. We would not get on their horse until we had addressed the issues that cause it to behave in unsafe ways.

We hope this helps,

From the Faculty, Parelli Centers"

joining up...???

pixiedustbunny — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:42:39 GMT

does anyone have info about the practise of joining up with your horse/how to do it? i really want to try with my horse :)

Next Step Showing

dr3amrid3r — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:25:42 GMT

My Parents have made it extremely clear to me that they will not be getting me another horse. My horse(College Boy) that i have now is a 15.2(?) hand, Quarter Horse/Morgan. He will be turning 9 on August 21. He is (i hope i using this term correctly) Green broke. He knows very little (go,stop,left, right, w/t/c). He doesnt know how to move away from leg pressure & i have only jumped him once with the lady that sold me him & she wasn't a very educated horse trainer. I would like to show in college & all the coach that i have talked to said i need to start showing alot by my senior year (i am about to enter into my sophmore yr.) My trainer says he isn't really a show horse because he is very stuborn howevr we make a great match because i am also very stuborn. Anyway my trainer says conformation wise he could easily jump 2 feet. i only have however a corral & a big unfenced, uneven field to work with him in. i would greatly apreciate any advice on how to get him to were i could show him & any training advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

Yearling help

emmy_potato — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:14:39 GMT

Hey, I'm looking for advice about my two year old colt.
Well, he turned two last month, and I would like your opinions on when a good time to start him under the saddle would be. I've put a light saddle on him and i've lounged him and stuff like that. But I'm not sure what age is a good time, I've known people who have started riding their horses at 3 and some at 2 or younger. He's pretty big for his age i think, he's almost the size of my quarab. I'm not sure what breed he is though, I think possibly a QH/TB cross maybe with some draft in him. Also, he hasn't been gelded yet I don't know how much of an effect that will have on his training. I haven't gelded him mainly because I'm kind of tight on money right now, i could have him gelded but he's really very calm for his age and not being gelded. he has a really sweet disposition and doesn't try to mount my mare. But if you all think it would be best to geld him for training purposes i would consider it.

also, any training tips would be great, thanks :]

Trick horses(HELP)!!

Heather & Little Bit 008 — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:18:13 GMT

I want to teach my 9 year old mare to sit and rear.. she can already bow on one knee and laydown.. I want to teach her how to sit without making her sit from the laydown.. How do I teach her how to sit like a dog? I also want to make her rear from under saddle or on the ground.. How do I teach her how to rear??

Trick Training

rustydanielle — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:02:03 GMT

Hey, alright, So I would love to teach my horses tricks, like, bowing, counting, and such. If you ahve any good ideas, and a detailed description of trianing them, that would be great!

Clinton Anderson

Dakota's My Mare — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:14:47 GMT

Do Clinton Anderson't techniques work? I'm thinking about looking into his training methods and i wanted to know if they work well.

Crazy about Parelli?

jumppassion15 — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 04:01:16 GMT

Just wondering who else loved Parelli horsemanship. I use it on my horses, and they do great with it. Even if you don't do it now, you should try it!

my horse rears!

crazyhorse — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:10:29 GMT

My horse gracie is a 10 year old qh mare that is supposedly trained for cutting.

the previous owners would let her get away with anything. If they were on a trail ride and she turned around they would let her. I also bought Lady with her and she is herd bound with lady!

Now when I ride her she rears up when she doesn't get her way, especially if Lady isn't there. I'd really like to start cutting her, but if I put a tie down on her then I can't. She really is an aggressive horse, wont let me catch her, tries to kick me sometimes on the ground and has no idea what the meaning of personal space is. I talked to someone who said the take a stiff water hose with a string on the end and every time she rears up to smack her as hard as you can on her head! But if she didn't see the water hose she would know she could get away with it! Shed be a great horse and she has the potential, but i just don't know wut to do to get her to stop! Id really rather not smack her head!

Shes already reared quite a few times. Once she flipped over and i ended up with a stressed pars in my back, couldn't ride for a month! Do yal have any suggestions? I ride western and am really interested in starting parelli. Will PNH help out with this problem?

HELP!!!!

Balance

canny11 — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:51:10 GMT

I was riding bareback today but almost fell off when fast trotting. I know how to do a slow sitting trot, but I want to be able to stay on top of my fast-moving horse. Are they're any balancing exercises that I can do?

Completely Disgusted.

misstiki2 — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:52:40 GMT

I came across a few videos of horses that were being ridden and a few were accounts of feeling sorry for the horse and gawking at the rider.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRDQNKvDyi8
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfbUAbtYT0Y&feature=related
This first video shows a Western Pleasure horse who clearly has the very low headset, also known as "peanut rolling" and his gaits are gawky and unpleasant to the eye. The horse appears to be sickly - but those are just his gaits and his way of moving. I feel awful for the poor horse who has had to endure this. It isn't right. He isn't even tracking up at the trot and at the canter, it looks like he is walking.
The second is the same, relatively.

I enjoyed this video much more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq7thNflk40

Furthermore, I have noticed English riders too, are doing odd things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiiSrkh5J-A
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3BJAAe9p8w&feature=related
Sorry if I offend anyone, but it looks more Western then English. I don't understand it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keOHAtAHTSQ&feature=related
There are much worse ones, but this one shows a rider moving very strongly against the horse's movement. A few people here that I ride with, refer to it has "humping their horse." It doesn't look appealing.

I read this on one of the girl's pages:

AQHA4evr (5 months ago)
comment
I dont know anything bout english pleasure but I thought that was really good I wish I could just keep my horses head down I'm a show jumper....thats why.

rungirl3 (5 months ago)
Reply
Thanks. I tried a jumping clinic with this horse once and I got yelled at because I can't pick his head up enough to go over jumps. LOL.

Poor guys. >_<
Please, let me know what you think!

who's your favorite trainer?

crazyhorse — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:03:26 GMT

I think they all are good, but some explain things better than others

Parelli

jumppassion15 — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:24:28 GMT

Hey, just wanted to let y'all know, I don't think the way I used to about Parelli.
I've learned alot since then, and know that you can never use just one method. I use a variety of methods, but mostly just my "gut feeling" (as my bro calls it).
I hate his psychology junk, and some of his other parts of training. But, I still use his games, and a couple other things.

I know this topic is sort of unnecessary, but I didn't want y'all to think that I was still a dumb kid who thought Parelli was #1, and worked on all horses.

Stacy Westfall's on the Jeffers Catalog

odonata — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:48:56 GMT

OK, I got my Summer Jeffers Catalog, and on the front is Stacy Westfall. I'm looking at this picture going, "What the he!! is going on here?"

1. I see a horse doing a 4-beat gait....i.e. each hoof is in a distinctly different position compared to a 2- or 3-beat gait. Obviously from her hair, this is not a walk.....but the ONLY 4 beat gaits a horse has (unless it racks) is a walk and a full gallop.....and its not a gallop. So I'm guessing this is one of those 4-beat "lopes" pleasure horses are supposed to have. Looks like it's doing a balancing act on small platform.....on eggshells.

2, The saddle doesn't fit. It should not be coming off the lower back the 6" it seems to be. This means that the saddle "plunks" back down on the kidneys...and with a 4-beat gait that means it does it twice for every full stride. It also means that it probably weighs very heavy on the soft tissue and lateral muscles that support the spine. Think this horse has a sore back?

3. The horse's neck breaks mid neck, not at the poll.....and the head is past the vertical. And you want to go forward?

4. This is a trainer? She LOOKS scared to death. I think she's going to cry. That's a death grip on the reins if ever I saw one.....even her knuckles are white.

5. Look at the horse's eye. This is not a horse.....this is a robot. This horse has completely given up and simply "does". There is no partnership here....in fact I think the lights are on but nobody's home.....horse has gone to a "happy place". And it ain't here.

She may be a NRHA Champion, but I sure wouldn't use a picture like this for the front cover of a major horse supply magazine. This just hurts to look at it.

training youngsters

misstiki2 — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:49:00 GMT

I saw a few videos today that worried me.

especially this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_C7KtbVbnQ&feature=channel_page

This girl is training this 3 y.o welsh cob in Level 2-3 dressage movements and claims that the horse HAS to be ridden because of a medical condition. She tells people on youtube that they don't know the horse and that "shes got upward fixaction of the patella" Apparently riding the horse allows her to work her hind end. Now tell me, this girl has said she's never had dressage lessons and only studied books on them....

My question is, why is she riding a 3 year old in such difficult movements? There ARE other schooling options to get your horse working from behind... and shoulder-in and half-pass aren't one of them.

Quick question on Stacy Westfall training

Swing_Away111 — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:05:19 GMT

Does anyone know if Stacy Westfall uses the lateral flexion training technique in her program? Lateral flexing is bending the horse's head around toward where your knee is when you are riding. It can be done on the ground or in the saddle. I can't find if she uses it or not.
Before looking into her program more, I wanted to know if she uses this technique. Does anyone know if she uses it? Thanks

Mustangs with PNH

Mustang-girl85 — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:13:50 GMT

I am a proud owner of a Mustang. I trained him in mostly PNH w/ my own twist of natural horsemanship. since I could not afford buying the books but went with what I saw in Parelli as well as one of the level ones and from being apart of the club. I also use some t touch to help w/ the friendly game since horses I've messed with seemed to love that. I didn't adopt him my friend did and deemed him too crazy. He showed off to any potential cowboy. I gained his trust and never had a better relationship with a horse. I have used methods of training before nothing natural. Until I got Sage. He has helped me. he is still viewed as crazy since he still only lets me ride which i'm fine with since, no one can get a saddle on. He has bonded with me. He is not dangerous. once I taught him to saddle no bronks promise. He was great. He has ridden with some crazy horses. We have had a horse launch herself at us and all he did was turn and let her kick. He would not kick another horse if a person is in proximaty like if another horse tries to instigate a fight. My neice can easily play with him. He has moved with me to Texas where I am currently away since I am iin the military. All I did was play. He doesn't care what I do. or where we go. He is my gaurd horse. No one can come up to me w/o getting through Sage if he doesn't know you. It took me almost a year to get on but well worth the wait everyone satys to rush. WHY!! is the horse gonna die at 4 years old if you don't. I have been through different trainers who beleived this. and Sage scared evry last one lol. Trust me though he is a big puppy dog. We have jumped we have tried a bit of barrels but that really is n't what I like doing we go and used to do drill and trails :) if you want to see pics of the beginning to now check out You tube: My Mustang Sage. We are currently going to be getting a yearling for a friend for him. Since I have been gone my parents take care of him, he has always been good with young horses. I have had him now for 5 years. And have gone every where with him with no problems. Except when others decide they're gonna bully him.

Dangerous Training Methods

Misfit Style — Sun, 10 May 2009 16:19:56 GMT

It's a bit of a vent, I will admit. But the parellis are dumb as bricks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKbBh8wgsaU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5yb9pLeOWI&feature=related

Both vids demonstrate incredibly dangerous behaviour.

WHY can't people just use common sense?

Right, it's lord Parelli. He is above such things. (*cue major eye roll*)

wild horses

crazyhorse — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 21:10:04 GMT

Hi, im hopin to adopt a wild mustang and i was wonderin if anyone had any experience in training them. Im thinkin a good way would be to use Monty Roberts Join Up thing or parelli(first i gotta get the money to buy that!!!! )But if anyone had any tips or advice plz let me know! Thankyou!!!

New to the horse forum :)

Friend of the Feathered — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:59:25 GMT

Hello all, I am new! I am a regular on the birdtalk forum, hence my name, and I never knew there was a horse forum--here I am!

I live with 2 horses--both BLM mustangs. Mine is about 3.5 years old, a bay. He is saddle-broken, and next is riding

Lateral Flexion

Barrelracer1997 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:58:50 GMT

Does anyone know how to stop a horse from "extreme lateral hyperflexion" as someone called it. Which is when you want your horse to turn it only bends it's neck

Opinions on John Lyons

Swing_Away111 — Fri, 15 May 2009 17:56:52 GMT

Because of all the Parelli controversy because of the videos, I was wondering what everyone's views of John Lyons were? Here's his website:
www.johnlyons.com
I will leave my opinion when I have more time to write.

Steve Kitts Hackamore Horsemanship

Swing_Away111 — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:20:41 GMT

I just watched a few videos by Steve Kitts on training your horse Vaquero-style with a bosal. I liked some parts of it, and not others.
The main thing that stood out to me is that his horse was completely tense throuought the entire training program. It supposedly covered six months, from basic groundwork to FLC and reining spins. The entire time under saddle the horse's head was high and you could literally see the tenseness in his jaw. He was trying to "collect" the horse, and his nose was tucked in, but I believe it was more of a "headset" (it was NOT rolkur-the horse's nose was on or a bit in front of the vertical). The horse also seemed that he could hardly lope. I think he was just so tense that he couldn't even move properly! And the trainer wasn't helping at all. He took the horse from a stand-still to a lope along the fence, then asked for roll-backs. I don't know if this is normal, but the horse's hind end was very tucked under (like if you spray your horse's tail with cold water, sometimes they will tuck their hind end under. It looked like that). Instead of rocking back onto the hindquarters, it seemed as if the horse was just tucking them under his body. Then, after doing a series of roll-backs all ending in the lope, he brought the horse to a stand-still. Besides being tense, the horse seemed almost explosive.
And with all the talk of lateral flexion (I'll admit-started by yours truly), that was something I didn't like about the video. he didn't flex at the gaits (just at a stand-still) but he had NO release. he even said "Hold the horse's head as long as you want". The horse was trying to "release" but he held the rein until he decided the horse was soft. At one point, he even tied the rein to the saddle horn for about 30 seconds, to get the horse's face "soft".
Besides that, there were some good parts. I liked how he used a pole as the center point for groundwork. He also would drive the horse around him on the opposite side of the pole. It was supposed to help for horse's who push their shoulder into you (if they try, they run into a pole!). He also put boots on his horse, to protect the legs. The horse was also much less tense on the ground than under-saddle.
Overall, the groundwork was much better than the under-saddle work. I don't think all the training was bad, the horse was just so unusually tense.
Has anyone seen his training? What did you think?

Signature banners

Barrelracer1997 — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:07:57 GMT

Does anyone know how to make the signature banners? Besides bannerfans and mybannermaker.