|
|
|
Starting Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 11/17/2009 10:51:20 AM
Posts: 49,
Visits: 51
|
|
| I've read the book "The Soul Of A Horse" by Joe Camp and I have a question. In the book Joe Camp questioned all traditional horse wisdom like training, stables, feeding, horseshoes and came to great conclusions- and for people who say some horses can't go barefoot if their competiting just take a look at his 'barefoot champions' section were horses in the highest levels of every disipline compete! OFF TOPIC- anywho, one thing he questioned were blankets. Joe Camp said that blankets mess up a horses thermagoregulatory system because a horse is half warm and half cold and his system doesn't know what to do. Is this true? (By the way his website is www.soulofahorse.com and his book ROCKS!
"People may tell me that they are great riders, fantastic horsemen, or knowledgeable horsepeople. I never believe them until I speak to their horses."  
|
|
|
|
|
Advanced Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 11:43:37 PM
Posts: 2,319,
Visits: 4,813
|
|
I disagree.
I come from Canada and it gets COLD. Plus, we clip our horses because we ride hard in the winter. Blanketing is not bad.
Horseshoes aren't bad either. Sure, some horses can compete at the higher levels without shoes. However, a lot of horses need shoes if they're doing really heavy work. It really depends on the horse.
Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born. ~Garrett Hardin
|
|
|
|
|
Advanced Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 11/8/2009 3:20:35 AM
Posts: 3,171,
Visits: 4,888
|
|
| Shoes or lack there of depends on the horse itself. Some can and do compete well with out some not so much. Such as you woild not necessarly go bare foot if the horses feet are lets say thin soled. But a horse who has 'tough thick soles might not have problems. Ther are to many factors concerning each horse to make a blanket statement about shoes or no shoes. As for blanketing. Yes it can mess up the thermagoregulatory system of the horse because the way their hair and their anatomical systems are. A horse who is healthy and not to thin etc can normally withstand temps to -20deg F not counting wind chill. When one blankets over the horse swinter coat it reduced the loft of hte hair thereby reducing its natural abilities ot warm itself. When we body clip a horse in hte winter we are taking away the horses natural winter defenses. We are exchanging that if you will for reducing the likenes of a horse getting chilled after being worked while cooling down and drying sweat ( which regular horse people do not give baths in hte winter or below 65deg F. ) which can lead to other problems. So we trade off we blanket to gve some of what we too away from the horse. make sense?
If ponies were human.. most would be in prison. Mrs. Smith COTH
|
|
|
|
|
Starting Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 11/17/2009 10:51:20 AM
Posts: 49,
Visits: 51
|
|
| Misfit Style I am also from Canada and I come from the coldest part. But some of the horses here don't have blankets. And another thing is that barefoot (a registered veternarian at the Atlantic Veternary College told me this) is better for horses so if we cannot possibly USE the horse for our purposes without hindering it's natural ability to grow a healthy hoof then we simply should not be competiting that horse in that disicipline. That's selfish. And Pete Ramey and Jaime Jackson (two respected barefoot trimmers) have had horses with thin soles, laminitis, thrush and several other common issues that were completely resolved with the wild horse trim. You should really read the book "The Soul Of A Horse," it has quite a bit of info. Here is an excerpt:
"Some people think there horse needs shoes if they are going to be jumping or say doing endurance riding." He (the vet) said. "What do you think?" (Joe Camp) "I think some horses have issues that others don't have." He replied. "Like what, owners?" The smile that wiggled across his lips betrayed his words...
"People may tell me that they are great riders, fantastic horsemen, or knowledgeable horsepeople. I never believe them until I speak to their horses."
|
|
|
|
|
Senior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 2 days ago @ 7:07:13 AM
Posts: 1,272,
Visits: 2,136
|
|
i really have to disagree with the barefoot statement. not all horses can. i personally like barefoot horses and i think if you can then you should. i tried taking shoes off my horse for 4 months, but she was getting really sore, getting red bruises, and her xrays started to get messed up. her feet just arnt good enough. then the second point about doing the wrong discipline, its not like im jumping her XC, i do low level dressage and trail. my horse is in pain if she does not wear therapeutic shoes, am i 'selfish' to provide what she needs to be a happy horse? to say every horse needs to have shoes may be ignorant, but to say all horses need to be barefoot and owners who dont are selfish is not only ignorant, but insulting.
as for blankets, if your not doing anything with your horse i guess there is no need for blanketing, but where i live it gets COLD in the winter, plus we body clip since we continue to ride. and for the neck/body difference, that could easily be solved with a neck blanket.
Proud to be owned by a thoroughbred.
|
|
|
|
|
Advanced Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 11/8/2009 3:20:35 AM
Posts: 3,171,
Visits: 4,888
|
|
| Ya see I have problem with the way of thinking you are quoting from the book. 1) natural trimmers.. what is this? To me it is like the made up/ self serving profession of grief counslers who swarm to schools shoiud one o ftheir classmates happen to die from something.. A real natural trim is done by nature by the horse walking running etc across the ground. Man has no hand in it. 2) even in the wild whee nature trims the feet there are horses who should have shoes on but ya know what we who go on the 'natur hike' type thing to track these wild horses do see them. Why because they cant keep up with the heard and get 'left behind' and eventually fall victim to the preditor animals. So the statement that all horses can go barefoot forgets to take into account that no not all hoses can in nature thy would be dead long before they can claim old age. I worry about any 'farrier' who claims to be anyhing 'special like a natural, wild, barefoot trimmer.. Why because man can not replicate 'wild' and farrier worth their salt can trim a barefoot horse. And face it when ever 'man' takes a tool to anything it is no longer natural. Heck I can trim a barefoot hors with some proficancy.. I choose not to due to injury but I can. So trimming a barefoot horse is not necessarly a big deal but people have hyped it up to where it is. I body clip all my horses even those who are not going to shows or being ridden that particular winter. It is purly selfish reasons.. I am allergic to horses. To me is it a 'few' hrs vs several weeks of misery.. But the added bonus of clipping is that one you can 'see' better if a skin problem is going on which depending one what it is could result in clipping of the horse anyway. If I may sugest something... Broaden your horizons a bit when it comes to horses. Just because you wish to do things 'natural' read or attend if possible traditional things/ training... And most horse people worth their salt dont go around quoting PP. most run away fro him actually. Read things from peole who have been in horses longer than PP has been alive IE sally swift, george morris, alos padosky ( not spelled correctly im sure but polish is noy my language) old calvery manuals. xenphonen etc. YOu may find their logic is much more impressive than PP or other NH 'trianiers' ( use of term lightly) can even begin to grasp. Quoting PP looses crediablity with real horsemen.
If ponies were human.. most would be in prison. Mrs. Smith COTH
|
|
|
|
|
Junior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 10/19/2009 10:00:45 AM
Posts: 208,
Visits: 797
|
|
Might I also add that riding horses isn't, in any way, 'natural' either. Because of the things we do with our horses (riding, competing, working etc..) we must do things that aren't "natural" in order to keep our horses healthy and sound.
A typical reining horse can't go without shoes for the obvious reason that his job puts so much strain on his feet. Doing all those maneuvers on bare feet would be very hard on his joints.
The same goes for any other working horse, jumpers, racers, whatever.
I put shoes on my horse because I want him to remain sound for his entire life, not because I'm "hindering it's natural ability to grow a healthy hoof".
|
|
|
|
|
Starting Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 11/17/2009 10:51:20 AM
Posts: 49,
Visits: 51
|
|
Clinton Anderson competes in reining barefoot. And Big Brown won the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness Stakes barefoot (okay, with a shoe that is designed to flex with his every step.). Plus, clipping horses takes away their natural ability to fight off the coldness of winter so then when they are half warm and half cold it really is our fault. Clipping them to ride is extremely selfish. And I don't care what you think of PP because if it weren't for him thousands of horses would still be trained with traditional methods, no one would have a solid system in place for newcomers and dedicated horse personnelle to grow a relationship with their horses. Plus unless ou have video or photo proff of being able to do what he can I don't want to hear about it. Unless you can prove yourself your claims mean nothing to me!
"People may tell me that they are great riders, fantastic horsemen, or knowledgeable horsepeople. I never believe them until I speak to their horses."
|
|
|
|
|
Advanced Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 11:43:37 PM
Posts: 2,319,
Visits: 4,813
|
|
[quote]Savvy4Horses (10/19/2009)
Clinton Anderson competes in reining barefoot. And Big Brown won the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness Stakes barefoot (okay, with a shoe that is designed to flex with his every step.).
Barefoot is great, just as long as it works for you and your horse. Just because you can cite examples of when barefoot works doesn't mean it works for all cases. Just because you see one brown cow does NOT mean that all cows are brown. And Big Brown did have shoes, you admitted it yourself, so that's not even helping your argument.
Plus, clipping horses takes away their natural ability to fight off the coldness of winter so then when they are half warm and half cold it really is our fault. Clipping them to ride is extremely selfish.
How is it selfish? I do NOT buy the "half warm/half cold" bullcrap. We take away their hair and give them blankets and a heated barn. At the end of the day, they are comfortable so what is the big deal? As for it being extremely selfish, isn't riding horses in general 'extremely selfish'? I personally think it's MORE selfish not to clip your horse in the winter, and then work them hard. It takes a long time for a horse to dry in the winter. Sweating makes them wet, wet makes them cold. Therefore, if you eliminate the sweating you can actually keep them WARMER with the addition of blankets.
And I don't care what you think of PP because if it weren't for him thousands of horses would still be trained with traditional methods, no one would have a solid system in place for newcomers and dedicated horse personnelle to grow a relationship with their horses.
BULL Xenophon? Heard of it? Classical Dresasge? Heard of it? Ray Hunt, The Dorrence brothers... PP was NOT the creator of these ideas. I have never done PP a day in my life and yet have a GREAT relationship with the horses in my barn. They will follow you everywhere without a bridle or halter, they respond to body language like no tomorrow, they come up to you at the gate when you come to get them. They are happy, they are loved and they are not being abused. Traditional Methods are NOT bad, they are based on the same principles as all other forms of horsemanship: Understand your horse and having your horse understand you. The ignorance of Parelli-ites astounds me.
Plus, I'm a strong admirer of NHE (Nezorov Haute Ecole, youtube it!) and here is what he says about equestrian sport:
The equestrian sport cannot be considered a sport by in essence. Moreover, the equestrian sport undermines the noble and glorious idea of sport. In fact, sport stands for breaking records, for achieving victory, but these records and victories have to be bought with the price of your own sweat, your own blood and sufferings, your overcoming yourself.
The equestrian sport, on the contrary, is parasitizing on the physical abilities of another creature who doesn’t give its consent for getting involved in it and is forced to do it through pain and beating. Then, how can it be called a sport?
[/quote]
I've heard of this guy before, he's crazy as a bag of hammers.
Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born. ~Garrett Hardin
|
|
|
|
|
Advanced Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 11/8/2009 3:20:35 AM
Posts: 3,171,
Visits: 4,888
|
|
[quote]Savvy4Horses (10/19/2009)
Plus, clipping horses takes away their natural ability to fight off the coldness of winter so then when they are half warm and half cold it really is our fault. Clipping them to ride is extremely selfish.
And I don't care what you think of PP because if it weren't for him thousands of horses would still be trained with traditional methods, no one would have a solid system in place for newcomers and dedicated horse personnelle to grow a relationship with their horses. Plus unless ou have video or photo proff of being able to do what he can I don't want to hear about it. Unless you can prove yourself your claims mean nothing to me![/quote]
so in your opinion it is better/ healthier for the horse to be ridden in full winter coat, for less than a normal work because it WILL not might , not possibly but WILL sweat up and become drenched in sweat if you work itless thanyou would normally during the warmer temps. what good it sub standard working with a horse who is in 'hard' work.. may as well give him the winter of and start over in the warmer temps. It is not 'selfish' to clip a horse for winter riding it is healthier for horse so they do not drip in sweat after NORMAL work. How many horses will be willing to stand/walk by hand etc for HOURS so they are compleatly dry before returned to stall or field? not many. But of course if horse is parelli trained that horse tendiancy to get antsy is no longer a actor right? ( see my thread about lord and lady parelli and their stand on helmets...
If it wernt for parelli many horses would have competant handlers /owners.. And actually be a deceant horse not some bundle of neurotic skin. SOrry I will never handle a parelli horse again for as long as I live. At least not knowingly.. Parelli is a wonderful marketer with a large ego. I dont have to prove jack to you. I have no desire to gallop my horse into a trailer while I am on it, no longer have hte desire to jump picnic table, have no need to get my horse to stand on a circus platform and turn around on it (serves no purpose in the real world of horses) and the other 'tricks' parelli and the pepperonies do with theiranimals. I pefer sound well documented , well studied, REAL not a jack in the box training system, training of the animials I ride. and again I dont need to prove jack to you.
Until lord and lady parelli are finally outed for what they are FRAUDS I will continue my campaigne againt them..
Anyone who advicoates the use of only their system recieves what they deserve...
If ponies were human.. most would be in prison.Mrs. Smith COTH
|
|
|
|